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	<title>Comments on: Open Letters to President Litfin</title>
	<link>http://overflowmag.com/81</link>
	<description>Different Voices</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 01:09:27 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: Lee Stagg</title>
		<link>http://overflowmag.com/81#comment-97</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Apr 2006 06:55:31 -0400</pubDate>
		<guid>http://overflowmag.com/81#comment-97</guid>
					<description>I am a Wheaton grad, class of 86.
I posted this response to Litfin at www.anagnosticchristian.com, but was pointed to this site by a reader (thanks to Ariah).

Dear Dr. Litfin,
 
I just received your email message regarding the gay group coming to campus this week. I feel I must respond, however quickly, and hope you will read this message, but fear you will not because it is a mass mailing and your staff is probably taking care of the details.
 
After I received my degree from Wheaton, I went on to get an MA in teaching (the University of St. Thomas) and an MA in theology from Luther Seminary in St. Paul, MN.  I felt Wheaton prepared me well (BA philosophy with English) for my advanced studies, and I would never trade my time at Wheaton for anything.  Having said that…
 
I am not gay and am happily married with two children, but I have come to believe that Wheaton College and evangelicals as a whole are on the wrong side of the issue when it comes to homosexuality and Biblical interpretation around this subject.
 
As Frederic Buechner, one of your Wade Collection authors, has said in my hearing, “The Bible condemns lust, it never condemns love, whether heterosexual or homosexual.” Scripture simply does not comprehend committed relationships between people of the same sex, but condemns homosexual lust within the contexts of “pagan” religious practices and debauchery.  For that matter, it also condemns heterosexual lust as well.  I think many of your Wade writers would see the issue in a similar way.
 
Conservatives should, to be consistent, treat divorced people with the same attitudes they treat gays.  We have Jesus’ words on divorce and remarriage in Matthew.  And they are strong words.  We are also told in the Old Testament not to loan money at interest, but evangelicals accept bankers, willy-nilly, in their churches. Once scripture was quoted to justify slavery and prejudice, but we learned to grow beyond this.
 
My point is that to assume Wheaton’s response is the “balanced Christian response,” as your email suggests, is to exclude very many persons of Christian faith who interpret the Bible differently.  I am sad that Wheaton is not a place that gay persons feel welcomed, as I knew gay students in the closet when I was there.  They could not come forward for fear of persecution.
 
I am praying for the day when the powers that be at Wheaton really listen to another point of view and do not assume they have THE Christian answer for all the vicissitudes of life.  What if Wheaton students were encouraged to really listen to a gay Christian point of view and not told ahead of time they had the correct Christian perspective?
 
Sincerely,
 
-Lee Stagg
www.anagnosticchristian.com
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I am a Wheaton grad, class of 86.<br />
I posted this response to Litfin at <a href='http://www.anagnosticchristian.com' rel='nofollow'>www.anagnosticchristian.com</a>, but was pointed to this site by a reader (thanks to Ariah).</p>
	<p>Dear Dr. Litfin,</p>
	<p>I just received your email message regarding the gay group coming to campus this week. I feel I must respond, however quickly, and hope you will read this message, but fear you will not because it is a mass mailing and your staff is probably taking care of the details.</p>
	<p>After I received my degree from Wheaton, I went on to get an MA in teaching (the University of St. Thomas) and an MA in theology from Luther Seminary in St. Paul, MN.  I felt Wheaton prepared me well (BA philosophy with English) for my advanced studies, and I would never trade my time at Wheaton for anything.  Having said that…</p>
	<p>I am not gay and am happily married with two children, but I have come to believe that Wheaton College and evangelicals as a whole are on the wrong side of the issue when it comes to homosexuality and Biblical interpretation around this subject.</p>
	<p>As Frederic Buechner, one of your Wade Collection authors, has said in my hearing, “The Bible condemns lust, it never condemns love, whether heterosexual or homosexual.” Scripture simply does not comprehend committed relationships between people of the same sex, but condemns homosexual lust within the contexts of “pagan” religious practices and debauchery.  For that matter, it also condemns heterosexual lust as well.  I think many of your Wade writers would see the issue in a similar way.</p>
	<p>Conservatives should, to be consistent, treat divorced people with the same attitudes they treat gays.  We have Jesus’ words on divorce and remarriage in Matthew.  And they are strong words.  We are also told in the Old Testament not to loan money at interest, but evangelicals accept bankers, willy-nilly, in their churches. Once scripture was quoted to justify slavery and prejudice, but we learned to grow beyond this.</p>
	<p>My point is that to assume Wheaton’s response is the “balanced Christian response,” as your email suggests, is to exclude very many persons of Christian faith who interpret the Bible differently.  I am sad that Wheaton is not a place that gay persons feel welcomed, as I knew gay students in the closet when I was there.  They could not come forward for fear of persecution.</p>
	<p>I am praying for the day when the powers that be at Wheaton really listen to another point of view and do not assume they have THE Christian answer for all the vicissitudes of life.  What if Wheaton students were encouraged to really listen to a gay Christian point of view and not told ahead of time they had the correct Christian perspective?</p>
	<p>Sincerely,</p>
	<p>-Lee Stagg<br />
<a href='http://www.anagnosticchristian.com' rel='nofollow'>www.anagnosticchristian.com</a>
</p>
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		<title>by: So-Called "Austin Mayor"</title>
		<link>http://overflowmag.com/81#comment-98</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Apr 2006 14:06:51 -0400</pubDate>
		<guid>http://overflowmag.com/81#comment-98</guid>
					<description>Hello all,

I live in the shadow of Wheaton College and have posted on this subject over at http://tinyurl.com/jofsc.  I was going to post it in the comments here, but I was afraid that the attribution might get lost if the formatting failed to transfer over.  

So you're invited to take a look if you're interested: http://tinyurl.com/jofsc</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Hello all,</p>
	<p>I live in the shadow of Wheaton College and have posted on this subject over at <a href='http://tinyurl.com/jofsc' rel='nofollow'>http://tinyurl.com/jofsc</a>.  I was going to post it in the comments here, but I was afraid that the attribution might get lost if the formatting failed to transfer over.  </p>
	<p>So you&#8217;re invited to take a look if you&#8217;re interested: <a href='http://tinyurl.com/jofsc' rel='nofollow'>http://tinyurl.com/jofsc</a>
</p>
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		<title>by: Robert and Deborah Morrison</title>
		<link>http://overflowmag.com/81#comment-99</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Apr 2006 16:17:39 -0400</pubDate>
		<guid>http://overflowmag.com/81#comment-99</guid>
					<description>Dear Dr. Litfin,


Many years ago two men, Jonathan Blanchard and Davis Phinny founded two fine colleges (Wheaton and Oberlin)  while they stood boldly against slavery in the civil rights movement of their day.  Many Christians from their time, failing to understand Jesus's true message of love and acceptance, condemned them for this, but they stood strong. It is truly a shame that only one of those colleges has remembered its roots.  Its even a greater shame that the college which has forgotten calls itself Christian.  Rev. Mel White and the members of Soulforce understand this.  Unfortunately you apparently do not. It is tragic that you see Soulforce's visit as a media ploy and not as an opportunity to learn how your policies affect people's lives.


My wife and I will be at Wheaton on Thursday night standing hand in hand in solidarity with many fellow alum, both Gay and Straight alike, all committed to seeing the oppression imposed by you, the Board of Trustees and other members of the Christian community end.  The generation before me did the same with people of color in the south.  We will not rest until bigotry is overturned in all of its forms and our Gay and Lesbian brothers and sisters in Christ are fully included into all aspects of society, including Wheaton College.


Sincerely,


Dr. &amp;amp; Rev. Robert  &amp;amp; Deborah Morrison
Wheaton Class of 1988 and 1987</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Dear Dr. Litfin,</p>
	<p>Many years ago two men, Jonathan Blanchard and Davis Phinny founded two fine colleges (Wheaton and Oberlin)  while they stood boldly against slavery in the civil rights movement of their day.  Many Christians from their time, failing to understand Jesus&#8217;s true message of love and acceptance, condemned them for this, but they stood strong. It is truly a shame that only one of those colleges has remembered its roots.  Its even a greater shame that the college which has forgotten calls itself Christian.  Rev. Mel White and the members of Soulforce understand this.  Unfortunately you apparently do not. It is tragic that you see Soulforce&#8217;s visit as a media ploy and not as an opportunity to learn how your policies affect people&#8217;s lives.</p>
	<p>My wife and I will be at Wheaton on Thursday night standing hand in hand in solidarity with many fellow alum, both Gay and Straight alike, all committed to seeing the oppression imposed by you, the Board of Trustees and other members of the Christian community end.  The generation before me did the same with people of color in the south.  We will not rest until bigotry is overturned in all of its forms and our Gay and Lesbian brothers and sisters in Christ are fully included into all aspects of society, including Wheaton College.</p>
	<p>Sincerely,</p>
	<p>Dr. &amp; Rev. Robert  &amp; Deborah Morrison<br />
Wheaton Class of 1988 and 1987
</p>
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		<title>by: Lisa</title>
		<link>http://overflowmag.com/81#comment-100</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Apr 2006 17:55:38 -0400</pubDate>
		<guid>http://overflowmag.com/81#comment-100</guid>
					<description>I am a straight, divorced, single parent Wheaton grad (class of 1990).  When I was a junior at Wheaton, a fellow student went out one day around lunchtime and knelt on the train tracks in front of an oncoming train near the off campus apartments in which I lived.  I did not know him personally, but I understand that he was gay.  I will never forget this as long as I live.  It was devastating for me and many others.  I cannot say for certain whether the alienation he felt as a gay man at Wheaton was the primary reason for his suicide.  But I cannot help to think that it was certainly a factor.  I have many painful feelings when I think about Wheaton.  Since my marriage to a fellow Wheaton grad failed four years ago, I no longer represent the &quot;model&quot; Wheaton alum.  I have not gone back to Wheaton since then because now I do not fit in with my fellow alums, who return to Wheaton reunions with their spouses and children.  If I feel this way, I can only begin to imagine how gay students and alumni must feel.  It's time that we put an end to the alienation of those who do not fit the married-with-children evangelical model.  Jesus died for ALL of us.  If I could,  I would stand with other alums like the Morrisons and declare that God's love, and thus my love, extends to my gay brothers and sisters.  They are worthy of receiving a warm welcome into the Wheaton community.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I am a straight, divorced, single parent Wheaton grad (class of 1990).  When I was a junior at Wheaton, a fellow student went out one day around lunchtime and knelt on the train tracks in front of an oncoming train near the off campus apartments in which I lived.  I did not know him personally, but I understand that he was gay.  I will never forget this as long as I live.  It was devastating for me and many others.  I cannot say for certain whether the alienation he felt as a gay man at Wheaton was the primary reason for his suicide.  But I cannot help to think that it was certainly a factor.  I have many painful feelings when I think about Wheaton.  Since my marriage to a fellow Wheaton grad failed four years ago, I no longer represent the &#8220;model&#8221; Wheaton alum.  I have not gone back to Wheaton since then because now I do not fit in with my fellow alums, who return to Wheaton reunions with their spouses and children.  If I feel this way, I can only begin to imagine how gay students and alumni must feel.  It&#8217;s time that we put an end to the alienation of those who do not fit the married-with-children evangelical model.  Jesus died for ALL of us.  If I could,  I would stand with other alums like the Morrisons and declare that God&#8217;s love, and thus my love, extends to my gay brothers and sisters.  They are worthy of receiving a warm welcome into the Wheaton community.
</p>
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		<title>by: José Vilanova</title>
		<link>http://overflowmag.com/81#comment-101</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Apr 2006 18:06:15 -0400</pubDate>
		<guid>http://overflowmag.com/81#comment-101</guid>
					<description>Here is the response I posted on the Wheaton Catholics Yahoo Group:

Hi All:

I, too, received the general e-mail that Wheaton/Litfin sent to its alumni, students and friends.  Frankly, I found Litfin’s e-mail rather unfortunate.  It lacked pastoral sensitivity and nuanced (intellectual) reflection.

What, exactly, is a “homosexual activist?”  Is a homosexual activist a muscular man clad in bondage leather, screaming epithets while carrying placards splayed with vulgar aphorisms?  What are the types of images that we are supposed to glean form from those words?  Words are deeds.  And, the words with which Litfin chose to characterize these individuals does nothing less than marginalize their humanity and inclusion in the Kingdom of God.

Furthermore, Litfin’s e-mail is devoid of any ambiguity.  It is “us” vs. “them.”  He fails to realize, as does most evangelical discourse on this issue, is that it is really about “we.”  Like it or not, there are men and women, ardent followers of Jesus of Nazareth, The Christ, who chose to describe themselves as homosexual.  There are even members of this Yahoo Group who are homosexual.  I have an adult gay godson.

Let me be clear: I have no solution, or even unique wisdom, on the matter of homosexuality in the Church.  But of this I’m certain: we have proceeded along this path of discernment without humility and willingness to personally and corporately repent and reconcile.  Instead, we’ve chosen fear — us vs. them.  We’ve chosen to judge others — pass judgment on those persons who perhaps have “different” sins.  And, what’s more, we’ve chosen to be Pharisaic, to chose the lordship of rules rather than the Lordship of Jesus Christ; we’ve chosen to condemn some persons, and laud others, based on their faithful adherence to “rules” rather than on their humble, self-sacrificial love for Jesus and each other.

So no [edited], these men and women are not “homosexual activists.”  Some of them are your brothers and sisters in Christ who have been judged and marginalized in crucial times of pain, suffering and discernment.  Most of them, from what I understand, just want to be others to listen to their story.  Perhaps they’re asking for compassion and understanding.  I see that as rather shameful, actually.  Isn’t The Church the one who should be asking for compassion and understanding?

I mean, let’s face it.  It isn’t like The Lord is any less in LOVE with each of “them” as He is with otherwise “straight” people.

Pace et Bene,

José O. T. Vilanova '89</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Here is the response I posted on the Wheaton Catholics Yahoo Group:</p>
	<p>Hi All:</p>
	<p>I, too, received the general e-mail that Wheaton/Litfin sent to its alumni, students and friends.  Frankly, I found Litfin’s e-mail rather unfortunate.  It lacked pastoral sensitivity and nuanced (intellectual) reflection.</p>
	<p>What, exactly, is a “homosexual activist?”  Is a homosexual activist a muscular man clad in bondage leather, screaming epithets while carrying placards splayed with vulgar aphorisms?  What are the types of images that we are supposed to glean form from those words?  Words are deeds.  And, the words with which Litfin chose to characterize these individuals does nothing less than marginalize their humanity and inclusion in the Kingdom of God.</p>
	<p>Furthermore, Litfin’s e-mail is devoid of any ambiguity.  It is “us” vs. “them.”  He fails to realize, as does most evangelical discourse on this issue, is that it is really about “we.”  Like it or not, there are men and women, ardent followers of Jesus of Nazareth, The Christ, who chose to describe themselves as homosexual.  There are even members of this Yahoo Group who are homosexual.  I have an adult gay godson.</p>
	<p>Let me be clear: I have no solution, or even unique wisdom, on the matter of homosexuality in the Church.  But of this I’m certain: we have proceeded along this path of discernment without humility and willingness to personally and corporately repent and reconcile.  Instead, we’ve chosen fear — us vs. them.  We’ve chosen to judge others — pass judgment on those persons who perhaps have “different” sins.  And, what’s more, we’ve chosen to be Pharisaic, to chose the lordship of rules rather than the Lordship of Jesus Christ; we’ve chosen to condemn some persons, and laud others, based on their faithful adherence to “rules” rather than on their humble, self-sacrificial love for Jesus and each other.</p>
	<p>So no [edited], these men and women are not “homosexual activists.”  Some of them are your brothers and sisters in Christ who have been judged and marginalized in crucial times of pain, suffering and discernment.  Most of them, from what I understand, just want to be others to listen to their story.  Perhaps they’re asking for compassion and understanding.  I see that as rather shameful, actually.  Isn’t The Church the one who should be asking for compassion and understanding?</p>
	<p>I mean, let’s face it.  It isn’t like The Lord is any less in LOVE with each of “them” as He is with otherwise “straight” people.</p>
	<p>Pace et Bene,</p>
	<p>José O. T. Vilanova &#8216;89
</p>
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		<title>by: Lisa</title>
		<link>http://overflowmag.com/81#comment-102</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Apr 2006 18:32:45 -0400</pubDate>
		<guid>http://overflowmag.com/81#comment-102</guid>
					<description>Forgive the digression, but I cannot help but post another comment after seeing José Vilanova's post.  After graduating from Wheaton I moved to Miami, where I still live.  Living in a multicultural city opened my eyes to the sadly homogeneous environment of Wheaton.  When I was at Wheaton, there was only a handful of Latino and African American students.  I do not doubt that they felt as alienated as the gay and lesbian students.  I certainly hope this is not still the case.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Forgive the digression, but I cannot help but post another comment after seeing José Vilanova&#8217;s post.  After graduating from Wheaton I moved to Miami, where I still live.  Living in a multicultural city opened my eyes to the sadly homogeneous environment of Wheaton.  When I was at Wheaton, there was only a handful of Latino and African American students.  I do not doubt that they felt as alienated as the gay and lesbian students.  I certainly hope this is not still the case.
</p>
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		<title>by: Open Letters to Wheaton President at Overflowmag.com  at  Trying to follow</title>
		<link>http://overflowmag.com/81#comment-104</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Apr 2006 20:49:32 -0400</pubDate>
		<guid>http://overflowmag.com/81#comment-104</guid>
					<description>[...] e, Wheaton College. 											 				 	 				 					I wanted to encourage everyone to stop by overflowmag.com and read some some of the open letters to President Litfin. People have written in respon [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>[&#8230;] e, Wheaton College. 											 				 	 				 					I wanted to encourage everyone to stop by overflowmag.com and read some some of the open letters to President Litfin. People have written in respon [&#8230;]
</p>
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		<title>by: sam</title>
		<link>http://overflowmag.com/81#comment-105</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Apr 2006 21:49:20 -0400</pubDate>
		<guid>http://overflowmag.com/81#comment-105</guid>
					<description>blah blah blah &quot;gayness is such a big issue oh noes!&quot;  Some people don't like wheaton, so they leave.  I did.  

Do you think it is a human right to have institutions bend to our will?  It's nothing more than supply and demand.  If we do not support wheaton, all we need to do is stop giving our money to it.  They will not come and take it (unless it is for services previously rendered).

I encourage those who disagree with wheaton's policies to disafilliate themselves.  Why are people trying to change how wheaton works?  Likely they feel they are the true christians, while those in the church who hold hurtful opinions are not.  I suppose they could be trying to change the church because they love the church.  Jesus loved so he laid down his life amirite?  Getting all huffy about it and trying to change things is a poor course of action.  Without the power of the people, no one will oust the people in charge.  The problem with writing many good points is people will not read them all.

Perhaps they want to save face in the light of others who will judge them based on who they are with.  However, unless someone is a coward, they have no reason to wory about what others think of them.  If a person judges without understanding the case, then they are not a worthy judge.  I would rather have a worthy judge than a promotion or anything else given by bribing an unworthy judge.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>blah blah blah &#8220;gayness is such a big issue oh noes!&#8221;  Some people don&#8217;t like wheaton, so they leave.  I did.  </p>
	<p>Do you think it is a human right to have institutions bend to our will?  It&#8217;s nothing more than supply and demand.  If we do not support wheaton, all we need to do is stop giving our money to it.  They will not come and take it (unless it is for services previously rendered).</p>
	<p>I encourage those who disagree with wheaton&#8217;s policies to disafilliate themselves.  Why are people trying to change how wheaton works?  Likely they feel they are the true christians, while those in the church who hold hurtful opinions are not.  I suppose they could be trying to change the church because they love the church.  Jesus loved so he laid down his life amirite?  Getting all huffy about it and trying to change things is a poor course of action.  Without the power of the people, no one will oust the people in charge.  The problem with writing many good points is people will not read them all.</p>
	<p>Perhaps they want to save face in the light of others who will judge them based on who they are with.  However, unless someone is a coward, they have no reason to wory about what others think of them.  If a person judges without understanding the case, then they are not a worthy judge.  I would rather have a worthy judge than a promotion or anything else given by bribing an unworthy judge.
</p>
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		<title>by: Conni</title>
		<link>http://overflowmag.com/81#comment-106</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Apr 2006 22:25:37 -0400</pubDate>
		<guid>http://overflowmag.com/81#comment-106</guid>
					<description>While I can certainly appreciate the general sentiments of the above posts I need to caution people to hold off judgment until this weekend is finished. Dr. Jones is handling soul force activities right now. This afternoon and evening very beneficial and mutually informative meetings were had. 

I do agree with 'sam' who wrote that those who do not support what Wheaton stands for should withdraw their financial support or transfer schools-I feel this way about all people who have serious problems with Wheaton's Statement of Faith and practices in the community covenant. 

Finally, I have had several very encouraging and edifying conversations with soul force members. They have been gladly received. We are all learning from each other. The Chicago Tribune add is very misleading. Wheaton College does not believe God doesn't love homosexuals. Rather, this afternoon we affirmed all of our humanities and participated in a liturgy of repentence for the horrificly violent emotional, mental, and physical acts commited again the GLBT community. There is hope. Change is never quick in coming...but we begin with love and with listening. I think that for now that is the first step.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>While I can certainly appreciate the general sentiments of the above posts I need to caution people to hold off judgment until this weekend is finished. Dr. Jones is handling soul force activities right now. This afternoon and evening very beneficial and mutually informative meetings were had. </p>
	<p>I do agree with &#8217;sam&#8217; who wrote that those who do not support what Wheaton stands for should withdraw their financial support or transfer schools-I feel this way about all people who have serious problems with Wheaton&#8217;s Statement of Faith and practices in the community covenant. </p>
	<p>Finally, I have had several very encouraging and edifying conversations with soul force members. They have been gladly received. We are all learning from each other. The Chicago Tribune add is very misleading. Wheaton College does not believe God doesn&#8217;t love homosexuals. Rather, this afternoon we affirmed all of our humanities and participated in a liturgy of repentence for the horrificly violent emotional, mental, and physical acts commited again the GLBT community. There is hope. Change is never quick in coming&#8230;but we begin with love and with listening. I think that for now that is the first step.
</p>
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		<title>by: sam</title>
		<link>http://overflowmag.com/81#comment-107</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Apr 2006 22:33:23 -0400</pubDate>
		<guid>http://overflowmag.com/81#comment-107</guid>
					<description>wtfwtfwtf my real name is sam it's not a fake name therefore it does not need quotation marks around it. 

and yes you are totally right that people should be patient and try to understand both sides.  Also, I think that it is really important for christians to say they are sorry for not trying to do the above.

Wow I really wish I could be at wheaton to partake in this event because I feel that there are a lot of interesting sides I could try to understand.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>wtfwtfwtf my real name is sam it&#8217;s not a fake name therefore it does not need quotation marks around it. </p>
	<p>and yes you are totally right that people should be patient and try to understand both sides.  Also, I think that it is really important for christians to say they are sorry for not trying to do the above.</p>
	<p>Wow I really wish I could be at wheaton to partake in this event because I feel that there are a lot of interesting sides I could try to understand.
</p>
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